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Turing

Denver

Turing

Avg Rating:4.78 ( 143 reviews )

Recent Turing Reviews: Rating 4.78

all (143) reviews for Turing →

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  • Back-End Engineering

    Apply
    HTML, Git, JavaScript, SQL, Sinatra, jQuery, Rails, CSS, Ruby
    In PersonFull Time40 Hours/week27 Weeks
    Start Date
    Rolling Start Date
    Cost
    $20,000
    Class size
    28
    Location
    Denver
    Financing
    Deposit
    $1,000
    Financing
    Skills Fund (Cost of Living Financing Available)Climb (Cost of Living Financing Available)Earnest
    Tuition Plans
    Alternative Financing available for students who are not approved by our lending partners.
    Scholarship
    $4,000 Diversity Scholarship
    Getting in
    Minimum Skill Level
    N/A
    Placement Test
    Yes
    Interview
    Yes
  • Front-End Engineering

    Apply
    HTML, Git, JavaScript, jQuery, User Experience Design, CSS, Express.js, Front End
    In PersonFull Time40 Hours/week27 Weeks
    Start Date
    Rolling Start Date
    Cost
    $20,000
    Class size
    28
    Location
    Denver
    Financing
    Deposit
    $1,000
    Financing
    Skills Fund (Cost of Living Financing Available)Climb (Cost of Living Financing Available)Earnest
    Tuition Plans
    Alternative Financing available for students who are not approved by our lending partners.
    Scholarship
    $4,000 Diversity Scholarship
    Getting in
    Minimum Skill Level
    N/A
    Placement Test
    Yes
    Interview
    Yes

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Shared Review

Adam Hundley  User Photo
Adam Hundley • Software Developer • Graduate Verified via LinkedIn
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Lori • Junior Developer • Graduate
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Sebastian • Software Engineer • Graduate
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Amber C • Graduate
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C'mon now
3/24/2016
Anonymous
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Response From: Jeff Casimir of Turing
Title: Executive Director
Sunday, Mar 27 2016

There's a saying that "on the Internet, refuting bullshit takes an order of magnitude more energy than spewing it." I hate to have discussion about Turing to be sidetracked by discussion of my personal strengths and weaknesses, but here we are.

  • I've never "buried" anyone. There isn't a single person I've ever wanted to see not succeed in the tech industry. I have continued to support everyone in our community whenever I can. You'd be hard pressed to find a negative word I've ever said about a student because that's just not what we're about. 
  • This sociopath thing I just don't know what to say. If you're so convinced that I said it than so be it. I'd be curious to know what conversation you think this took place in.
  • We ask for a lot of feedback from students and I don't recall student-to-staff ratio ever coming up. I can't really speak to other bootcamp programs because I've never worked there. Typically I see classes described as 18-40 students with 1-2 staff members. When we ran Hungry Academy is was 24 students, 2 staff -- 12:1. When I ran gSchool it was 24 students, 2.5 staff -- 9.6:1. You can probably find programs that run at 8:1 and others at 18:1. It's just not a big deal. The question is "when I need help is there (a) someone available in a reasonable timeframe and (b) does that person have sufficient expertise to help me?" If the answer to both is yes than the ratio or where that person gained their skills is irrelevant.
  • I, nor Jumpstart Lab, nor Turing, nor any related individual or organization has ever been threatened with a lawsuit, had a lawsuit filed, or any other variation thereof. You've got bad information. If you believe otherwise I invite you to contact Chris Onan, CFO at Galvanize, who I've always had a good relationship with.
  • The tuition guarantee is a pointless debate as the state regulatory body has changed their previous decision and now does not allow any form of guarantee. Against their wishes and in violation of their code we told all students who'd signed a guarantee that we'd still honor it, and we have. Why would we do that if we're so concerned with weaseling out? I believe we've fully or partially refunded four tuitions now. From a "CYA" perspective we could have leaned on the state's decision and not refunded anything, if that's what we wanted to do. 
  • For students who've left the program early our general policy is to "over-refund" them. If you drop out in say the 2nd quarter, the regulations say that we owe you 50% of your tuition back. We tend to refund 25% more than the regulation. Persons who drop out in the first two weeks we've usually refunded everything. Anyone who's ever asked us directly for any form of refund has gotten it. The reasoning is that a person who's dropping out or otherwise frustrated is likely in a financially vulnerable position. Maybe they're going back to an old job, old city, or whatever. But the bit of their tuition we can return to them is a way to help them make that transition more successfully.
  • This meme of people being so scared of me is...I can't control how people feel about me. I'm not here for a popularity contest. I work hard, I expect others to work hard. I'm kind to people, I expect others to be kind to people. You'll never hear me yell. You'll never hear me point out someone's weaknesses. You'll never hear me bully. If you're a student in my program you'll hear what you need to hear to help you become a better version of yourself. Is that always fun? No. Is it difficult to grow? Yes. But that's what we do, together. I'm growing too.

If the original poster or anyone else has further questions or assertions you're welcome to email me at jeff@turing.io 

Buyer Beware
3/17/2016
Anonymous • Student
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Response From: Jeff Casimir of Turing
Title: Executive Director
Friday, Mar 18 2016

Hi Anonymous,

I'll try to pick through the specific points/assertions above:

  • We published our outcomes in far greater detail than the NESTA expectations here and did so in the timeline we agreed to. Rather than spending money on an audit we published the raw data and calculations. Our friends at SkillsFund have volunteered to audit the data and we expect to have that wrapped up later this month. Note that of the 10 schools that signed on to NESTA, only Turing and the Flatiron School have publishing anything. I've been told by friends in education policy that our report is the most transparent accounting of student outcomes they've ever seen in post-secondary education.
  • During that more detailed data crunching we ended with a higher graduation rate than I originally told the reporter who was writing for the International Business Times article. But regardless, our reported graduation rate is some 15%+ lower than our competitors self-reported rates -- if I were going to inflate stats I'd make them a lot higher!
  • I've never stated a "mission to "lower graduation rates"" because that would just be stupid. All academic institutions are trying to have high graduation rates. Similarly the bits about "grading on a curve" are just not true. We want to see all students succeed and curves are meaningless.
  • The author's real issue with Turing is around our Gear Up sessions which yes, are supposed to be uncomfortable. Specifically the session that stood out was about Privilege, including a 1988 essay on privilege by Peggy McIntosh commonly read in post-secondary classes dealing with issues of race, gender, and privilege and often cited by the idea of a "knapsack of privilege". You can see in the exercise that there are few if any of my opinions present. Like all Gear Ups, the session is run in small student groups where reading, writing/reflection, and student discussion are the sources of discovery. In an industry where women make up just 5% of programmers and people of color face a similar imbalance, we must get uncomfortable and explore these issues to try and figure out how we create a better society.
  • Our Fridays, which are referred to as the "20% indoctrination days" above, can be exemplified by this recent outline. We had academic review time, Gear Up, an amazing guest speaker, lunch roulette, cohort retrospectives, and some student-led elective sessions. Pick through the outlines to see that that's the general pattern of every Friday. This week's Gear Up was completely orchestrated by a group of students and focused on Environmental Responsibility.
  • The question about student to teacher ratio is interesting. Each module has either two or three staff members dedicated to it. A typical class is about 24, so we're between 1-to-12 and 1-to-8. I don't know of other programs which are lower, but there could be some. In K-12 schools ratios are typically 1-to-20+ and in higher ed it's larger, so I'm fine with these where they stand.
  • With non-profit-ness and "returns," well, that's just not how 501(c)3 non-profits work. You can't have returns by definition. My salary is less than I was paid when I was running gSchool or Hungry Academy. No one has equity (non-profits are effectively owned by the public). There's no smoke and mirrors here. Every single member of the staff could be earning more elsewhere. I believe we're the only program of our size operating without outside investment -- we're completely bootstrapped.
  • Students repeating modules is one of the mechanisms I'm most proud of at Turing. It's allowed many students to muscle through and graduate who would have otherwise had to drop out. Many of the reviewers below are folks who took more than the expected four modules to graduate. Of our 116 survey responses from 2015 students, including both graduates and non-graduates, 87% did not repeat a module, 7% repeated one module, and 6% repeated more than one module. It's a system that works. Yes, when you repeat a module you typically need to buy another "credit", which we price at 1/8th of the tuition (so effectively a 50% discount compared with your original four credits).
  • The "woman who repeated the first module twice without receiving support" I just talked with this week and was happy to see she's doing well at Galvanize. Turing is not a fit for everyone. When she and a few classmates were struggling, Josh Cheek (one of our instructors) decided to create "Team Grit" and worked with just the three of them full-time for three weeks. That's above and beyond support, in my book.
  • "Sociopath" -- I'll admit that I always have to look this word up, so I definitely don't self-describe that way. Google says "extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience." I've been in schools and classrooms for 13 years which would be pretty damn difficult if I saw myself as antisocial. Lack of conscience, well, I'm not fit to judge. I've dedicated my life to other people's education -- my conscience weighs heavy with every one of their struggles and all the students who didn't succeed.
  • The Division of Private Occupational Schools is our governing body. We've found them to be responsive and shockingly effective as a regulator. Their guidelines have pushed us to define policies that are both student friendly and in line with our principles. During our two years of existence we've had two complaints filed with DPOS, one resulted in a full refund after the student graduated and the second, cited above, was deemed "no fault" and dismissed. DPOS is quite responsive if you have more questions about their processes.

In the end, Turing is not for everyone. I'm genuinely sorry that the original poster had a less than satisfactory experience. We don't teach "coding," we build developers ready to steer the tech industry onto a better course. I'm proud of the work that our students put in and the lives they build for themselves. I'll do whatever I can to leverage my privilege for their benefit, even if it means some people will write nasty things about me on the internet

Emily • Software Developer • Graduate
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DJ Greenfield • Software Engineer • Graduate
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Just do it!
2/29/2016
Sally MacNicholas • Software Developer • Graduate
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Career Pivot
2/28/2016
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Life Changer
2/25/2016
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Apply!
2/25/2016
Lovisa Svallingson • Graduate • Graduate
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Great Program
2/24/2016
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Student Outcomes


75%
On-Time Graduation Rate
80%
In-Field Employed
$75,000
Median Salary

180 Day Employment Breakdown:

Full-time employee
72%
Full-time apprenticeship, internship or contract position
3%
Hired by school in-field
6%

Started a new company or venture after graduation
0%
Short-term contract or part-time position
4%
Hired by school out of field
0%
Out of field
0%

Still seeking a job
7%
Not still seeking a job
0%

Non reporting
8%

Salary Breakdown:

95% of job obtainers reported salaries.

Notes & Caveats:

  • 71 enrolled students are covered in this report.
  • View Turing's Detailed Outcomes Summary here.
  • CIRR is a coalition of coding bootcamps that have adopted a standard for reporting, publishing, and marketing student outcomes. Read more about CIRR

Thanks!