Dev Bootcamp

I dropped out of college to attend Dev Bootcamp a year and a half ago, having only done the equivalent of one year of CS in self study. The experience was the definition of disappointing. The curriculum was all either exercises I'd done as part of my self study or some of the worst I've ever seen (ie. program an imaginary hospital even though we already gave you a week of exercises in the subject, OOP programming). When I approached teachers with questions, they would say that they'd talk to me after class and literally would avoid me afterwards. The absolute worst of it all was job placement. Stephanie refused to give me the counseling, resume help, and teaching I desperately needed, telling me to instead go talk to my fellow alumni. I wrote her bogus check in emails about how I'd saved orphans from burning buildings and she replied as if I had given an actual check in. I never was put in contact with companies. I was not alone in this, with few of my cohort getting jobs. Only the ones who previously had connections did. Later I enrolled in another bootcamp out of desperation. The precourse curriculum for that camp covered more than the entirety of Dev Bootcamp. They also provided the career help I needed, and I got a job making 6 figures with options and benefits 3 weeks after graduation. There are good coding schools out there, but Dev Boot camp is no longer one.

This is the most brutally honest review, and remember the truth is usually ugly. To start off there are 3 harsh truths I had to learn:

1. They say they can teach anyone to code. No, they cannot. I don't even have to explain it - just think about that logically.  Think about the different types of people in your life, with their varying personalities, interests, and intelligence. Can you honestly say they can ALL learn to code? in a few weeks? And if you need any further proof, yes this place kicks people out. 

2. There is no demand for dbc grads and dbc is saturating the market with them. Yes there's a huge consistent demand for developers just like there's one for doctors. But who would you go to if you had the choice? A doctor with literally 0 years of experience and somehow learned to be a doctor in an accelerated 1 year program or a doctor that went to all 4 years of medical school and have at least 5 years of experience? exactly. And that's the cruel reality you'll face after you graduate and start searching for jobs

3. The rampant sexism. If you're an attractive girl - actually, just a girl, you'll be fine. But guys prepare to get ignored and graded on a harsher scale. I understand the benefits of affirmative action and equality and that we need more women in tech but letting them slide and ignoring the men is not the way to do it

-- And just a honest warning - if you're introverted - FORGET THIS PLACE. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY. If you are introverted you will be ignored, uncomfortable with the noise level and general cultural environment, and you have no chance at a job afterwards, because their career plans is exclusively reaching out to strangers and soliciting them for a job. And like other reviewers said, forget any job support or any connections from dbc.

Also, let's not forget the favoritism, drama, and gossip. Everything is fake. half of it - yes you're learning how to code but I guarantee the other half you're going to be entrenched in petty gossip. Like the other reviews have said the instructors say they're there to help but are usually nowhere to be found - especially on Fridays when they take the entire afternoon off to get together for a "meeting" where they just talk shit about all the students. Casey who's as saccharine as it gets; Baker only talks to girls since hes "feminist as fuck"; and Leon is the fakest of them all. Of course they're all fake, since the entire concept of dbc is just a facade especially after Kaplan bought them and now its a for profit pump and dump factory. dbc used to have standards on who they let in - their application used to be extensive, with multiple questions and you were required to create a video of yourself teaching a skill. now if you'll notice, its just 2 questions - why do you want to go to dbc, whats your weakness and strength. great. they'll let anyone in and thats why instead of meeting cool creative people, you end up meeting a lot of people who are just in it for the superficial reason of money. Like someone else mentioned, do not trust Erin the counselor either. And I agree with other reviewers that engineering empathy was horribly facilitated and a complete waste of time. it just frustrated people.

I did everything right post graduation - i kept up with the weekly updates with the career coach, did cold outreach, endless coffee meets, meetups, etc. Still dont have a job and never will in this field. There is little room for someone who's only been programming for a few weeks. I know people who read this might think I'm just a naturally jaded person - I am not. I am in all honesty trying to save anyone from making the same expensive mistake I did. its more than 13K. Add all the thousands up from the living expenses in the 3 months you're there, plus the thousands during the job search. Try a conservative 20-25K

if youre truly interested, keep your job and do online courses. talk to your company and see if you can make a move to an entry level tech position, keep learning. go to meetups and work on projects independently. a lot of established developers ive talked to learned their skill on the job.

I graduated 5 months ago and close to no one in my cohort has a fulltime job. This seems to mostly be the norm in NYC. The experience was fine but I only really did it to get employed. I would recommend if you have another job or if you do not have the financial ability to dedicate close to 6 months after the fact to look elsewhere. Close to all of the bootcamps teach ruby on rails and it is no longer the most popular framework. You will just basically be applying to a ton of positions that will exclude you immediately because there are tons and tons of candidates just like you. DBC does not publish their job statistics anymore and for obvious reason. Like I said the experience was fine but I would seriously urge against going here if you do not have an extreme passion. Even if you do, I would recommend applying to a more selective camp (hack reactor, app academy), it will force you to put in the work prior to applying which will give you insight into whether it's something you really enjoy, and will also let you gauge your own skill.I would also reccomend freecodecamp.com, save yourself 13000. The job market in NYC is very stale without experience and is going to only continue to get more bloated.

I came to DBC because it was reported to be a professional and nurturing environment to quickly get a new set of skills under your belt. Firstly, the coding portion of the program is comprehensive and clearly helps to progress one through the necessary skills for an junior programming position. The head instructors have substantial expertise and are mavericks in their own right.  But they are rarely available for one to one assistance and some of their lectures were Ad Hoc and disorganized, which was suprising . A majority of the assistance/mentorship received during the program comes from aides that have just graduated or have less than a year of experience.  Mentoring from programmers at that level of education/expertise or better can be found at your local meet-up group or online and cost almost nothing, which was another dissappointing realization once in the program. 

Secondly, with the cirriculum there is constant discussion about throwing away “the way you used to learn”.  Due to this mentality the program culture is highly insular and they degrade other programs or traditional methods of learning. This is questionably effective when you are expected to work with or learn from people with inferior (according to DBC instructors) backgrounds. I was never sure if I should or shouldn’t use something I read from a traditional or competing source.  Occasionally myself and others got lash back for suggesting those sources. Very “us” versus “them”. Graduates going out into the working world holding these beliefs about their future cohorts are very damaging biases to cultivate in a very small and intimate tech community. The 2 daily programming lectures were helpful, but the same contact cane be found on a youtube video or at any of the online coding schools.  The coding exercises are very helpful and appropriately progress skill level. But, again, the same or comparable exercises can be easily found in coding books or online classes. Additionally, the job placement program doesn’t offer a lot of help with finding an entry level position.  Most graduates find jobs through their own connections or pay for additional job placement programs.

Thirdly, for an organizational culture claiming to change the abuses and marginalization that persists in the tech world, this organization didn’t do much to change it. Most of the women I met at the program did not continue pursuing a tech position because of the overt sexism they experienced during the program.  It went completely unchecked and was propagated by the staff.   I saw instructors cut each other off frequently or belittled by other instructors during my time there. I heard one instructor being called stupid for using a certain method and one instructor was told information wasn’t wholly accurate in the in the middle of their lecture, which was very unprofessional and ended up being an inaccurate criticism (not to mention a waste of time). All the females that graduated my cohort reported they didn’t feel it was an optimal environment for women and many reported it wouldn’t be well received if they reported their these concerns. Despite a lot of lip service to addressing non professional behavior through their social education classes, there was no observable or consistent application of the education given during those sessions.  It was basically a statement to the effect of “Come on, don’t do this” and when students and staff chose to continue inappropriate behavior, it was ignored. 

Though this may or may not be a concern for most people learning code, the inappropriate use of psychological intervention through the program was a large noted concern during my time there.  When getting emotional coaching assistance from their on site psychologist, you sign a waiver stating that all your information is not confidential and will be shared with the staff at DBC (the exact opposite of what happens if you go to a private coach/counsler).  I would hear students expose their frustrations about the instructors,  other students, or their personal lives and see it used against them during classes, either directly or indirectly. Instructors would yell at students (I know it is a bootcamp, but I assumed there was a figurative element to the term) They would also force individuals to publicly expose their most private experiences, with a lot of coercion, to a group of people they barely knew. It wasn’t unusual to see people crying or report feeling overexposed after these sessions. They insisted on telling students to open their boundaries to “live authentically” and be your “whole self”. If you choose for any reason not to open up you are pressured and ridiculed to do so by the staff (as I was pressured a few times during my time there). In any traditional mental health, coaching, or medical setting these are severe privacy breeches that could led to losing your license. Truthfully astounded these forceful methods are considered ethical in this setting.

Alternately, The majority of DBC students themselves are generally wonderful people.  They pick really amazing, intelligent, driven individuals through their screening process. Affecting their future prospects is the only reason I hesitate to write this review, but people should know what they are spending their money/time on. The program definitely works for some, but I question the quality of the education they provide. Students who self studied found the information and instruction at DBC minimally useful. So for the cost, I would look closely at other options, I personally learned a lot more using other avenues. Simply put, paying over $13,000 for this program may be a bit of an oversell for their “innovate” approach and it is questionable in many ways.

In reference to the Chicago location.

Dev Bootcamp tries to show that they're different from the rest of the bootcamps out there due to their engineering empathy classes, but its all terribly fake. I know, I was in these classes. 

They are really good at showing themselves as a great school by sponsoring meetups and events, showing they're helping the community such as women in tech meetups or people of color tech meetups. Its all an act to portray their beliefs. They are doing these things because its a huge advantage to advertise their school to the poor souls at these meetups. 

I felt like an outsider at the entire time by the staff. They were very subjective in who they liked and wanted to help more. They emphasize the issues in the tech world such as the lack of women/people of colour, but then don't even manage the same issues in the classroom. They hang out with the white crowd, pull jokes together etc but look at you weird and walk away when you like to join in. Its funny how segregated it gets in the classroom. If you are a woman, be prepared to be talked over, ignored and automatically treated as a nobody by the males. Its quite difficult when you have to work as a group. If you raise this issue with the instructors, be prepared to be treated as a student from nursery "tell them to stop". Yeah sure, like I haven't done that already.

They assign you to an advisor in which you cannot change if you don't learn well from them. He was a brilliant programmer, but a terrible teacher and even more terrible person. I felt like I was a waste of time for him and he was getting frustrated with me. His personality was cold and impatient towards me. At first I thought it was due to his nature. But as I watched him with other students that are white, he was the cheeriest and nicest person I'd ever seen. What a great way to learn. Its hard to separate these issues and focus on the lesson at hand when they arise day in day out. There's a reason why they have a therapist in the classroom (which by the way doesn't keep anything confidential amongst the instructors). I felt unsafe in this environment. 

I wanted to build my confidence as well as knowledge at Dev Bootcamp due to their views of the tech industry. But it was all the same. I left and found a better bootcamp that focuses strictly on the curriculum and none of the spewing of their "one love" anecdotes. Many of the students who aren't white admitted to me about this as well as not being able to find jobs. The whites were obviously oblivious and had no problem finding a job. 

So if you're white, enjoy.

To start, I should state that I attended DBC a little less than three years ago, before the Kaplan merger and right around the time the bootcamp insustry was starting to explode. Now, three years later, and with little to show for it, I can confidently state that attending Dev Bootcamp was an enormous mistake.

I started coding about four years ago because I was looking for a new hobby and this seemed like a good way to use my mind after a long day of less than satisifying work. And I loved it from the start, it was challenging but not frustrating, and even when it got very difficult the thrill of creating something and making the computer dance more than compensated. Over time I came to see that programming was something I both enjoyed and had some aptitude for. I started to think that I could do it as more than a hobby.

It was about that time that first heard about DBC. It sounded amazing, a place where I could fill in the gaps, learn how programming really works and get a foothold in the industry. I knew I could get in, that was never in doubt. After a few weeks of considering I applied, was accepted and off I went.

Dev Bootcamp nearly destroyed my love of writing code.  I put in a ton of hours, usually around thirteen on the weekdays, eight to ten on the weekends and I was only not in the building 2 days out of my twelve weeks.  The instructors however were only there from eight to five, monday through friday and were often unavailable during those times.  So if you were struggling with something, or a learning tool didn't work, you were out of luck if it was outside those hours.  Even when there was an instructor there the quality of what they could teach was often very lacking. I didn't learn anywhere near what I expected to, in spite of putting in the time. My final project was a joke, something that I'm absolutely ashamed of. It was like the physical manifestation of three months of futility and failure.  Still, I left hoping that I would know enough to get that critical first job, and everything would be all right.

That didn't happen. I applied to a ton of places, and the few that even bothered to respond came back with canned rejection letters. I kept being told that I had to network and go to events, but not living in a major tech hub there wasn't much I could do there. Otherwise, I didn't get much assistance from DBC and really felt like I was on my own. No great connections to companies, no inside track to get me interviews.  I have managed to take a few positions since then but none of them have been as a developer or offered any useful professional experience or growth.

So I'm farther behind than when I started, no job, no prospects. I haven't even had an interview anywhere I didn't get a referral, and even some places where I know people I've still had no luck. Everything I've tried to demonstrate value has been a dead end. Prior to going to DBC I had a job which, while being very unsatisfying, gave me a good wage, insurance, union coverage and a growing bank account. Now I have none of that, minus the sixteen thousand I spent on tuition, and living expenses. Not to mention the mental toll of abandoning my family for three months when they really needed me, and the changeable physical impact I can feel on my well being.

As I said, this was some time ago.  I've spoken to a number of more recent grads and from what I've seen the situation is getting worse for DBC graduates  Another red flag is that the company is refusing to participate in an independent assessment of their outcomes.  Bootcamps are pumping out thousands of graduates every year, and the market simply can't absorb them all.  I would be leary of any bootcamp, but DBC in particular as they seem to be coasting on reputation.  Any company that won't release hard numbers is one to avoid.

People say that DBC changes lives. Well, it changed mine, but not the way I expected it to. I still remember first checking out the Dev Bootcamp website four years ago. "In Nine Weeks" the website said, "You Will Be A Web Developer." Well, I put in more than nine weeks, and I'm sure as hell not a web developer. Some days I don't think I even want to be.